Fox Geist (celebrating 100 Episodes!)

Fox, editor and producer of The Psychedologist, comes on the podcast to celebrate our 100th episode! We talk about his experiences with psychedelics and he shares his thoughts for any of the more straight-laced listeners who might be thinking of trying out journey work for themselves. We set the intention to do 1,000 episodes of the Psychedologist, and have Fox on as a guest for every 100th episode.

While Fox provides encouragement to folks who might be on the fence about trying psychedelics, we want to be clear that psychedelics aren’t necessarily for everyone. Please be responsible for your own choices, do your research to find out if its a good fit for you, and go about it in the safest way possible. Just as psychedelics can call to us, there can also be a time when we feel the call to shift to using other tools, and that’s great, too 🙂

Fox Geist is a medical device salesman from Renard, Arkansas. He lives a “normal” suburban life with his wife, 2 young children, and Zorro, the cat.

Fate brought us together while attending his 1st and only Psychedelic Science conference in 2016. As we stayed in touch over the next year, Fox insisted that I start my own podcast. He dusted off an old home recording hobby and handed me a microphone when we next met in person. Fox has been editing and producing the show since it began in 2017.

Jiminy Cricket, for anyone who wasn’t sure:

A collection of ThatWasEpic give-away videos:

David Carradine playing a Chinese character and promoting Eastern philosophy to a young Fox:

📍 You are listening to consciousness positive radio. Welcome. Fox Geist is a medical device salesman from Renard, Arkansas. He lives a normal suburban life with his wife, two young children, and Zorro the cat. Fate brought us together while attending his first and only psychedelic science conference in 2016.

As we stayed in touch over the next year, Fox insisted that I start my own podcast. He dusted off an old home recording hobby and handed me a microphone when we next met in person. Fox has been editing and producing the show since it began in 2017. And it really wouldn’t be possible without him. So, in this hundredth episode of the Psychedologist, fox comes on the podcast to celebrate number 100! We talk about his experiences with psychedelics, and he shares his thoughts for any of the more straight laced listeners who might be thinking of trying out journey work for themselves. We set the intention to do a thousand episodes of the The Psychedologist… woof! And, have Fox on as a guest for every 100th episode.

And I just wanna mention an extra caveat that after we finished the recording, we ended up. Going back and forth about how psychedelics aren’t necessarily for everyone. And it’s up to each individual to do your research and find out if it’s a good fit for you. And then to go about it in the safest way possible.

Just as psychedelics can call to us. There can also be a time when we feel the call to shift to using other tools. And that’s great too. So, while in this episode, he provides some encouragement to folks who might be on the fence or nervous about trying psychedelics- we just wanna say that your decisions are your own and we respect your decisions.

Without further ado. Enjoy this episode. Number 100: Fox Geist.

Fox welcome to the podcast. You’re on The Psychedologist.

I can’t believe it.

This is awesome. I mean, I think about 20 episodes in, I was like, I wanna have Fox on for number 100. So this is like years and years in the making for me. And I’m just stoked.

Well, most podcasts don’t make it past seven. So, the fact that we’re at a hundred is pretty amazing. There’s a little pat on the back here.

Any wagers as to how many we’ll get done in total. Like what’s the distance The Psychedologist can go?


All right. I’m just gonna say a thousand, cuz I wanna be really extreme. God, I’m gonna be like in my sixties. They won’t have podcasts, then. It’ll be in VR.

That’s true. Yeah. Beamed right into the cranium. Yes.

Well, thank you so much for being here.

I love it. This podcast is very interesting for me because you have a lot of people on who are, let’s say a lot farther to the left than I naturally am. And it stretches me. It makes me sort of listen to topics like magic, for example, and consider it, put away doubt for a moment. And, you know, I learn new things.

So, you know, it’s been really interesting and outside the norm of my daily life to edit and produce this thing. So, I enjoy it.

That’s great. Well, speaking of stretching, let’s talk about your consciousness. What was, what was your relationship to consciousness as a child?

Well, I am a child of the eighties, the seventies and the eighties, really. And we had the idea of hippies from the seventies, right? So we, we had a lot of that kind of culture and the idea of yoga and meditation was out there. It wasn’t a mystery, but it didn’t exist in my house.

I do remember, like there was this show Kung Fu… did we talk about Kung Fu before?

Not yet.

Okay. So Kung Fu was this I think it was actually from the seventies, but when I was watching TV as a kid there were only three channels, right? So you watched a lot of reruns from the previous decade. But there was this guy, David Carradine. A white dude who played, um, I think he was a Chinese Kung Fu master, that came to the old west. And so it was weird. They had a white guy playing a Chinese guy, but it was a lot of that, ancient Asian wisdom would be dolled out in each episode. And so, I think I took on some of that and there were a lot of shows and movies like that back then, right? I did grow up in the church, but I always found that to be like very formal and stodgy and, kind of hard to believe or make actionable. So I just went because I was forced to go. But I think I always had this kind of view into something else that started, uh, like one of my earliest memories is, this, I called it a recurring nightmare.

I haven’t had it in at least 30 years, I think, but I used to have it all the time growing up even into teenage years where I would just be asleep in this cave. It was like a red dingy cave. And, um, I would hear this sound that was like a dark magical chord, that had some sort of meaning in it.

And, there’d be like this snap that you feel like when somebody breaks a stick underwater near you, you know, it sort of goes through your entire being. And then I would wake up terrified. I didn’t know what it was, but I knew it meant something.


So there was that, uh, I used to just terrorize myself thinking about infinity.

So I think that’s pretty common with people, you know, I would just lay there and say, okay, wait a minute. If I, if I went out into space and I went a little bit farther, wait, I could go a little bit farther after that. And then after that, and then like, I would just drive myself insane. And, um, I remember, having these full conversations imagining like the 90 year old me talking to like the 12 year old me and, what kind of advice would he give? And that sort of thing… seemed very real.

Do you have any examples?

Not really. I remember it happened in church. It would always be sitting in the last pew in the church and this old dude comes in and sits down next to me. And I don’t realize it’s me at first. And then, you know, basically it was enjoy your youth while you have it that kind of thing.

But just being aware that, there was like me on a timeline, I think was the point of that from a consciousness perspective. And then, I remember in school, I sort of made up my own form of meditation if you will. I remember we had these Walt Disney videos. They used to play ’em on the reel to reel. Actually, he was a reel to reel projector and, um, Jiminy Cricket. Do you know that character? He, he was, he, he is a cricket.

I only know him as an expletive.

Well, he was a, a Walt Disney character and I remember there was either an opening sequence of the credits or a closing sequence where he had a rag and he went through and kinda wiped away the screen. And then it went to black and I think it said “The end”. Right? And I took that idea and I applied it inside my own brain.

I made this up completely, you know, so like when I was trying to go to sleep at night- and I couldn’t, because I couldn’t turn off all the thoughts. Um, I would do this thing where I would relax each body part from my feet to my head. And then I would pull out the Jiminy Cricket rag and sort of squeegy out the inside of my brain.

And then I would fall asleep.

Wow. That is very creative.

And then the last one is, uh, when I got a little bit older. So I lived out in the middle of nowhere and, I did redneck yoga in the gravel driveway. And then it occurred to me one day, you know, uh, there’s nothing stopping me from just taking off all my clothes and going for a hike in the woods behind my house.

And I used to do it quite often.

Whoa. How old were you?

I did that from probably 13 through 16 or 17, something like that.

Wow. That is bold.

But it was about like, you have this one way of living right now, this one reality, but there’s a way to have a completely different experience, like just immediately. And as soon as you did that, everything feels different. There’s a sense of, almost like you’re doing something wrong or fear or something like that, but it’s just like you’re in one consciousness and then you can do something to suddenly be in a completely different consciousness.


So that those were like the kinds of things. But other than that, I mean, I was like very straight, you know, like, very into math and science, very good student. I really didn’t rebel much at all. And I think from outwardly, everybody saw me as, uh, oh yeah. That, that kid’s on the straight and narrow. And, and I didn’t feel like I wasn’t.

Hm. Little did they know you’d be the editor of a psychedelic podcast in the future?

None of them would guess that. I guarantee you

Yeah. Being naked. I mean, that reminds me of episode, eighties or nineties, somewhere with, um, Shelby from bay daters and they talked about being naked as their consciousness hack. And I really related to it. I don’t know if I told this story. Um, I probably did in that end to that episode, but, um, when I went to a nude beach for the first time in Lavia, I took off my bathing suit. And, I worked up the nerve to go in the water, cuz I felt really embarrassed. And uh, even though no one was looking at me and then I finally got up the nerve. I was walking down to the water I was waiting in and then this family with like, Three little kids was coming out of the water.

And I was like, oh my God, there’s kids like, no, I’ve gotta cover up. This is so inappropriate. And I was like, wait, no, no, it’s not. It is not inappropriate. It’s appropriate. We’re all naked. It’s okay. And just like, you know, how many conditions my mind had about like, you must not be naked. And that was my recurring dream as a kid, by the way.

I’d like wake up and I’d be naked at my desk. And do I wait for the bell to ring and I leave with everybody else? Or do I try to sneak out? Everyone will see me and just feeling yeah, really afraid of being seen.

Most people have that in their underwear. You went all the way

Oh yeah. Yeah, no, I didn’t get to keep my underwear. Shoot. That’s not fair. Come on psyche.

But yeah, I think, um, I always, enjoyed the arts, but I was more of a math science person growing up and, there’s a half of me or maybe more that is, very grounded in logic. And, these explorations in the last just four or five years, I think, uh, in psychedelia for me are totally new.

I kind of came to it later in life and I think that’s one of the things that I hope to pass along to people. Listening here is, you know, if there are people who don’t think of themselves as, super hippie dippy and are skeptical about exploring these substances and realms, um, hopefully I can be a little inspirational. It’s been good. It’s been really good for me.

What would you hope to inspire in those people or, you know what what’s been so meaningful about your journey?

Well, I think inspirationally it’s first just getting over the hump and trying something, you know? Kinda like, uh, what you were feeling in Lavia, right? Like there’s this stuff programmed into us about how bad these substances are and how bad a person you are. Well, you’ve talked about that. Like even in your first experiences that resonated with me, right?

Like that was exactly the same kind of feeling. You’re doing something terrible here. And I think if you can get over that, um, and then start to explore these, these things, um, these states of mind, So I like the sort of widespread collage of colors and, like a new. A new sense of reality that you can explore and sense, and it actually kind of sticks with you, but I also really, like actionable things.

And I think you and I have talked about this a lot in the past too, you know, I, I’m always very mission oriented and, you know, some things that, truly are healing, you know, like, um, one of the biggest problems that I’ve always faced is, um, you know, I’m a introvert. By nature, which nobody would believe in my normal life because I appear to be very extroverted.

That just means it, you know, it drags a lot of energy out of me to be in social groups. And one thing that, I found early on in psychedelia was it, it really made it clear to me. Like I had this other program running in my mind Kinda like a little guy in the brain, like Ratatouille, uh, pulling on this lever and that knob and this rope, you know, that was literally attached to things like this corner of my mouth must was lift to make a half smile because this other human just said this thing to me.

And it was exhausting. More so than just being, um, introverted. I was also like putting a ton of brain energy into just making this facade that I, that I thought made me look like a real human in front of other people. And, really the work with an underground therapist and some of these substances, um, helped me to identify that helped me to get past it.

It didn’t stop, um, instantly after, you know, a trip, but over a period of a couple of years and a lot of different, uh, kinds of work. I looked up one day and realized, holy shit, I’m not doing that anymore. Can, can I cuss on here?


I’m kidding.

Hmm. It makes me wonder when that guy pulling the levers came about. Do you remember a time before that?

I really don’t. I always felt like that. I always felt like I was mimicking, um, other humans. I mean, partially that was because I was really smart and the town that I grew up in didn’t, uh, didn’t reward that so I was, I was always on the outside because I was, you know, like the. The super duper A student.

And, um, so I always felt like kind of the other, because of that,

and has that changed to now that you don’t do that anymore? Do you

um, has what changed

still feel like the other.

I do, but less so, you know, like, okay. I’m I’m 25%. I. Where I was, uh, a hundred percent the other how’s that?

Yeah. Well, I think that’s part of psychedelic culture in some sense is like we are others. Um, I know that when I see the students I went to grad school with, and this one became a PhD researcher and this one’s doing therapy and I’m doing something so different. Uh, in a sense, I use my degree, but actually there’s times that I have to consciously remember not to use what I learned in my degree, because it conflicts with what I know now, from what I’ve studied in psychedelics and my own experiences and what feels like right.

And true. um, for example, looking at someone as a cluster of symptoms and a diagnosis, it’s very limiting. Uh, I find to do that and, um, really, I mean, they’re showing that the DSM is more for insurance purposes and categorization than actual treatment, but that’s a, a, um, a sweeping statement, uh, anyway, just thinking about the other and I felt like an other as a child.

And a teenager and yeah, I don’t think, I don’t think it was as okay. The corner of my mouth must pick up. Like, I think it came through naturally, but I also resonate with being inauthentic to get along. And, and now I almost find more joy in my otherness. It’s like, it’s not something I’m ashamed of. It’s something that I have some pride in, but you know, there are hard days with it.

Of course.

I mean, social awkwardness, social anxiety. I mean, that was my entire, my entire life, uh, up until. About four years ago, like from earliest memories? Well, maybe I, I do remember a time as, as like I have an early memory at like three years old, um, where I didn’t have any of that. So somewhere between three and seven, I must have learned this or somehow it, it, it became part of who I am, but, um, I guess I would say, uh, My reaction to otherness now that’s been healthy is not as much embracing it, but more just like, not caring about it like just letting go any care about it.

I was at a birthday party, a big group birthday party, um, a few weekends ago. And, uh, it’s what, you know, I always call elbows and assholes. I mean, it’s just a room full of people banging into each other and, um, I remember standing there and just thinking, just thinking for a second.

Okay. So I was standing there, there was a guy playing, uh, a guitar and singing live, you know, live music, just a solo guy. And so the crowd had kind of moved outta one room into another to be, you know, to go listen to him, sing happy birthday to the, to the birthday girl. And, um, So I left a little bit early and I’m standing there and, um, there wasn’t a group that had followed me right away.

So there was nobody with me. And so I’m, you know, I asked the guy, Hey, uh, you know, need Bob Dylan songs. Cuz he looked just like Bob Dylan. And he says, yeah, look at me. You know and, and um, and then I stepped back and I just waited and I realized, I, I don’t feel a need. To have someone around me talking to me right now.

I just like almost kind of planted both feet and like almost that hero pose that people talk about, you know, my hands were at my sides, but, um,


um, but yeah, I mean, I just stood there for a second. I’m like, I don’t have to do anything or talk to anybody or feel anything right now. I can just wait for this guy to start singing.

And like that is all due to the work that I’ve been putting in over the last probably four years. Mm,

mean, that’s amazing work and. Pretty remarkable that you could do that in a relatively short time, especially like four years. And you know, you’ve been on earth for, you know, however many decades already. Um, you said you grew up in the seventies, so, um, are there any particular journeys or moments from journeys that you wanna share with the listeners?

that is a good question. I went full psychedelic, uh, at one point. Uh, so, you know, usually when you start learning about these, uh, these different substances, you know, you’ll, you’ll start with, uh, well cannabis, even, you know, I, for me, cannabis is just as psychedelic as anything. I have a very, very low tolerance.

So, um, you know, I, I really don’t see how people can function as, as daily weed smokers, pot doers. What do you, what do you call them?

Pot doers.

Um, like, I, I, I like it. It’s fun, but I can’t imagine actually accomplishing anything afterwards. Cuz my tolerance is just so low. Um, I say that just in case there’s others listening who are like, I’m not too sure about all these things, you know, like, you know, um, but yeah, I’ve explored MDM a and.

L S D and mushrooms and DMT at this point. Um, but at some point, as you start to explore all those things, somebody starts whispering to you about iowaska and . When you start thinking about any of these things, it’s interesting. I promise you that the universe will make them available to you in very weird ways.

Like it does just pop up at the right time when you start thinking about it. Um, so that happened for me and I was able to, um, attend a ceremony with IASA. And, um, it was pretty brutal, I think I, I used this one as a cautionary tale because, um, I think very rarely have any of these sessions been fully enjoyable.

Like they always seem like a lot of work. Um, and then the case of Iowas gets to the extreme. It was like, you know, running three or four marathons over a couple of days, but in the first session, um, , I was expecting to. Experience oneness with the universe, a feeling of love and beauty just permeating everything.

And instead, I, I, my internal brain, uh, not Iowasca, this was clearly me speaking to myself, just berated me, saying that I was, uh, fucking worthless, uh, a piece of shit and just on and on and on every derogatory statement that I could possibly make about myself. Uh, At volume. I mean, yeah, both kinds of volume, pretty loud in the brain, but also just constant nonstop, repetitive.

And that seemed to go on forever and ever, and ever, and. and then, uh, I did not purge, which is very common in that practice. So purging, either vomiting or, uh, crap in your pants is, uh, considered, you know, getting rid of some of these bad feelings or spirits or things that are inside of you and can. Can truly be a purge in that way.

Uh, that didn’t happen for me, but I realized the second night when I did have the more pleasant experience that that was purging decades upon decades of internalized, self-talk just in a slightly different kind of purge. I, I probably would’ve preferred to shit myself, to be honest.

Yeah. Wow. Mm. Right. Like those nasty thoughts were leaving your body in some way, like just running through your consciousness, but, um, exiting. Cause you had some


after that journey.

I did. Yeah. And I, I almost didn’t stick around for that relief. You know, when I, you know, that starts at, uh, maybe at like nine o’clock at night is certainly dark outside and goes all through the night, you know, maybe four or five hours. Like not sure I had a real handle on time, but at some point you, uh, you see the sign coming through the window and you realize it’s morning.

Right. And, and I was just praying for that to come so that I could. Be mobile enough to grab my keys and get my car and get the hell outta there. I was not gonna stay for the second night. Uh, but I, but then, you know, through the day you talk to people, you hear, you know, people having similar kind of feelings and, you know, it’s a very warm, welcoming group.

And you, it reminds me a little bit, like I imagine, you know, when a woman has their first baby, I really, when a couple has their first baby, right? Like it’s hell, um, You don’t sleep and you just feel like, oh, like I’m never gonna be able to do this, but then your brain has a way within about nine months of, uh, making you forget that and you go through and have another baby.

So that was kind of like the second night for me.

What a comparison as a person who thinks about having babies. Sometimes that’s freaking me out a little bit. cause I love to sleep, but yeah, I, you know, I think it’s a, it’s a, an important. Insight to confer, especially to people who are thinking about journeying and haven’t done it, that, um, those defenses of, you know, I’m gonna leave or, um, This is like, this is horrible.

Like I’ve been paranoid multiple times, both in places where I probably should have been paranoid and also in like totally safe. And in, you know, like places with integrity, I’ve been like, this is a cult, this is wrong. Um, I’m unsafe and it’s, it can be hard to discern whether my feeling of I’m unsafe, I need to leave is.

Truly about what’s actually happening here, or if it’s about some past experience coming up being like kind of purged or brought to the surface in order to be healed or completed or something.

Yeah. And that’s something I’m really sensitive to as well. So, uh, I, I will reveal that in my day job, I have a, you know, like public facing kind of sales role. So I spend a lot of time. With other people, oddly enough. And, um, generally I, I feel like there are, you know, most rules don’t apply to me just because of the kind of day job that I have, but it forces me to, uh, circumvent.

Some social norms. So I’m good at that. And so I have a healthy disrespect for, uh, structure and hierarchy in general. Like that’s just definitely at my core from my day job. Um, but I. What I see in so many different movements out there is something that scares the crap outta me is how quickly and any endeavor humans will form a hierarchy and create gurus.

And this power differential. That’s one thing that I’ve heard over and over again in these podcasts too, which has been, you know, something for newbies to really watch out for is I think it’s scary to think if you get in with the wrong group and you are. Strong enough to resist this, that, you know, you could have a guru that’s heading up one of these communities that, you know, really starts to believe.

I mean, you’re dealing with power and magic almost. And, um, it’s scary to think that somebody could take over your life. I mean, they do it, uh, in things like TaeKwonDo clubs, right? Like I’ve heard these, uh, podcasts about, uh, one, one TaeKwonDo, uh, club that basically turned into. A guru situation or cult and, uh, imagine how much easier that would be with my altering substances.

So, um, luckily I’ve, you know, I’ve been able to watch for that and I think I have a pretty good barometer for it. So, um, I’ve been able to avoid it, but, um, that is a worry out there in this psychedelic world, especially because it’s all underground.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. The, um, the amount of. And, and there’s like, it’s easy to draw this polarity of like safe or unsafe. And so often it’s in the gray area and what is safe for somebody might not be safe for someone else. And I think that’s important to understand, um, particularly when there’s a therapist is accused of abuse or harm and all the other people that they’ve sat for that loved their style and had a great experience with them say they would never do that, you know, but it’s.

Someone could be treated differently and they could have a different experience. And, um, the same thing doesn’t work for everyone. Yeah. I, I found myself with a very trustworthy ketamine facilitator recently, and I knew that she was trustworthy and I, it really allowed me to reckon with all of the parts in me that feel like I can’t trust anyone because I knew, I knew that I could trust her.

And I had to go through a lot of pain to, and in feeling how I so wanted to trust her. And then these other parts weren’t ready to, it was, it was sort of like standing on the edge of a cliff or something. And, but it’s not really a cliff because I’m not gonna fall. I’m gonna, I’m gonna be caught. It was like jumping and, and trusting that I would be caught.

So yeah, I really hear you on.

think the other thing I’d share, uh, just going back to your question. Are there sessions that I, that I would share with the public here that were particularly helpful. I think there’s, um, there, there definitely are kind of two classes that I’ve experienced, you know, one is true talk therapy associated with it, so it helps to, you know, not be completely bonkers out of your mind.

Like you actually have to be able to carry on conversation. Um, you know, MDM a in particular, um, Was great for that. I think MDM a also left a lasting. My, this was my first trip ever. Actually it was MDM a, uh, I know people say that’s not technically a psychedelic, but that was my first exposure. It’s a very easy way in very kind, um, less likely to have a bad trip or a challenging.

But the thing that it taught me that was so valuable to this day, I, I re I refer back to this almost like cliffs notes, you know, is my internal chatter completely died. So my brain just like when I was talking about, uh, you know, Gemini cricket, my, my meditation technique, I would use this rag to try to make all those thoughts go waste just so I could fall the fuck asleep.

Right. Um, so that’s, there’s always something bouncing around in my brain and. On M DMA, uh, that complete silence was so refreshing and unusual, but it’s also something that now that I’ve experienced it, I know what the baseline is. I didn’t. I had no idea what that baseline might. I could have you can’t you can, you cannot really imagine that until you’ve experienced it.

Right. And then now I can call on that if it helps in things like I do daily meditation today, I do about, you know, 10 minutes a day.

It’s been quite a while. You’ve been keeping that up.

I have. Yeah. So I’ve been doing that, uh, for about a year now, very regularly. I tried many times before, and, and by the way, I’m, I’m very like action oriented. So like, I look for a tool and I try it and if it doesn’t work, I move on to the next one.

So like I use Headspace for a while, which is, you know, a pretty good. App that a lot of people can find on their phones. And that’s also anywhere from five to 20 minutes a day. And, uh, I used that for a while. It didn’t stick with me that well, uh, I really like Sam Harris. Uh, so he’s got an app out and that’s the one that has really held my attention the most.

But, um, I’ve noticed that since I had that experience, it makes meditation a lot easier because you’re getting to the same. Or a similar place. Um, but knowing kind of what the, the target looks like makes it easier to get there. and, and, and I know that’s, and I know that’s totally a, you know, the opposite of what you’re supposed to do in meditation is have a target that you’re shooting for.

But, um,

Huh. I wonder if that’s a future frontier for you in your journey work? Like what would it be like to not be action oriented? Like, is there some metal mental chatter? That’s the action orientedness and what is consciousness without that? Maybe with five EEO DMT. I’m like I’m pH that one synthetic because those toads.

Being hurt really badly. And they’re endangered and synthetic felt exactly the same to me personally, but, uh, yeah, it’s curious, like, Hmm. What would your consciousness be like if there wasn’t an action orientation?

Yeah. Well, I mean, that’s something I confront in most trips, you know, there’s a point in the trip. Um, In fact, the last one I had this, this came up, uh, I, at the very beginning of the trip, I’m, you know, wrestling, my ego is wrestling with, uh, okay. Are you doing it right? Um, have you accomplished enough yet?

Are you going to accomplish enough? And what are you supposed to be doing right now? You know? And. I think, uh, you know, I’ve had a lot of training, uh, you know, from you and from this podcast, you know, this is something that you hear as a recurring theme, you know, go with it, go through it. Um, let it, uh,


let go.


Be open the

the process.

trust the fucking process. Just trust the process.

Yep. Trust the process. And so this last trip, I, uh, I had that, that thought I was wrestling. My ego was wrestling, trying to make sure I was doing it, Ryan it’s like, you don’t have to do anything here. Just remember you don’t have to do anything here. And then I, you know, let go and kind of spread my arms out to the side and everything was fine at that.


But that’s the two, oh, those are the kind of two flavors, right. Is I would say if you’re doing talk therapy mixed with it, for me, you know, that’s like, okay, we’re actively doing, we’re trying to uncover something. We’re trying to find, you know, some root cause maybe, or at least bring to the surface, whatever might be.

The root underneath the root, you know, uh, so there’s all these things that are healthy to do, and that seems very action oriented, but then there’s the other, uh, side, which is, you know, people talk about this with, uh, iowaska. I didn’t experience this really, but people talk about, oh yeah, the aliens come in and they rip your chest open and they just get in there and tinker around and they’re, you know, well, we have to remove this, connect this to this.

Oh, that’s not where it’s supposed to be. And you just let it happen. And when you wake up, you’re healed, you know, so. That’s never happened, but there is an element of that, right? I think with each of these trips that is getting you towards a healthier state.

mm-hmm yeah, right. Yeah. I like the image of, of snow globe being shaken up and all the snow flies and. Kind of settles and falls, but maybe in a new pattern and, and that’s, you know, the integration process is so important and it’s such a potent time for that reason because we are more malleable and open and it’s good to have plenty of time after a journey to just.

Be, and, and not have to snap back into being like the way one has to be for their job or for their family or whatever. Like the, the longer we can stay away from that. I think the more, uh, we stand to grow into who we can be, you know, instead of who the world needs us to be like, who our family, we think our family needs us to be, or our job or something, which, uh, you know, may not be the most harmonious for.

there’s something I, I do have a regular therapist, you know, just normal. Um, she doesn’t give me mushrooms or anything, but um, but one thing that, uh, she pointed out recently was some of the effect that you might be feeling is the break from your normal routine. And you get that in a pretty condensed format, uh, with these substances.

So you might get a similar experience just from. Going on a vacation somewhere, you know, and getting out of your normal life for a few days or maybe a week.

Yeah, no, totally. That’s so important. My mind just said I can’t do a thousand podcast episodes. I should have said 500.

well, now it’s nine now it’s 2000.

Oh, my gosh, I’ll be doing them in hell. Yeah. Wow. Well it, yeah, it is important to get away and right. And you felt that at the birthday party, like, I don’t need to be with anyone or talking to anyone like, Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. So, uh, anything else that you wanna say before I ask you about your consciousness? That

No. Um, I’m just encouraging, uh, you know, you, you can be weird or you can be normal and straight laced and. These things are open and useful to all. So I, I hope I can be that stand in for the straight edge person out there.

is so cool. Yeah. All right. So what do you do to hack your consciousness Fox?

Well, I do some of the normal things, so obviously the meditation we talked about, uh, I do dabble in cannabis occasionally. Uh, I have to figure out how to take a half of a hit off of a, a vape or I go too far. So it’s a little hard. Um, I found that cardio, uh, really helps me kind of change a mood. And when I say consciousness hack, it’s usually because I’m in a bit of a, a pit and I’m trying to.

Do something to change that experience. And I found that like 45 minutes of, or more of cardio, for some reason, that’s the, the magic number for me. If I do 30 minutes, it doesn’t work. But if it’s 45, it, and it doesn’t matter if it’s strenuous or not. It’s just a period of time, uh, that helps. But the two, I’ve got two interesting ones for you.

I think I get two, right as the podcast editor.

as many as you want.

Okay. So, um, this is another one that I, uh, invented. I was a little bit, um, inspired by, uh, vem. H have you heard about the Iceman?

Mm-hmm . Yeah, but why don’t you say for a minute, just so people who.

So, so vem H is this really crazy? Uh, he’s from the Netherlands, he’s a Dutch guy, right? He’s he is this crazy Dutch guy.

I always thought he was French, but also I thought it was whim H so I’m gonna defer to.

Yep. And, uh, he has, uh, this whole program around cold. So he is known as the Iceman because, uh, he’ll swim. You know, under icebergs, I guess, um, in, you know, really frigid water he’ll, uh, sit in the snow and meditate, uh, in just his shorts with no shirt on. And it’s, um, it’s breathing techniques that I think are probably pretty similar to holistic breathing.


Holotropic yeah. Yeah. I think it’s, it’s probably similar to that. Um, So I, anyway, I started taking cold showers after learning a little bit about him. I haven’t done his program yet. That’s on my list of things to eventually get to. But, um, so I’ll take a cold shower and I found that, um, the method that I use is, uh, you know, I don’t wanna do it.

Like I say, I want to do it. But then when I get to the shower, I’m like, hi, you could just take a warm shower. It doesn’t have to be cold. Does it? And then, and then I get in and I’ll start with it a little bit, you know, Luke warm and then finally I’ll just jam it all the way to the cold. Right. So I stand there.

There’s the shock of it. But in my mind, what I found is really interesting is I start thinking about the, the warm side only. I don’t think about the cold side. So I imagine that there, that I, that it’s, it’s nighttime and I’m standing outside with my back to a raging, uh, bonfire.


So the part that’s not getting the water is I am imagine being heated up by because it’s a differential, right?

So the colder, the front gets the hotter, the, the back can feel. And then I wait until I just can’t stand in my back being that hot and then I have to spin around to cool it off.


that’s the trick that I that’s the thing that’s going on in my mind. And I just do that over and over again, you know, wait for the backside.

To get hot, too hot, and then I have to spin and cool it off. Um,


and what I found is, um, there’s a moment where not only does that, that will definitely change your consciousness. Right.


um, but I also noticed like, Uh, the sense of smell suddenly becomes really, really acute. So there’s like a sensory change that happens too.

Um, so if you are feeling really down or, or if I’m feeling really down or, um, just in a bit of a pit or in a funk, um, and I just kind of force myself to do that. Um, not saying I’m jumping for joy afterwards, but you know, I’m definitely not in the same pit, you know, it’s like, it changes. It’s like a, a pattern to interrupt.

Would you go dunk in some freezing cold water with me sometime.

I would definitely do that. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna do that.

Awesome. Let’s definitely do that. I love the cold water for me. My hack with the cold water dunks is, um, I want to embrace my death when I’m dying. This is a big goal, a big goal of psychedelic journeying for me as well is just to am Vipasana meditation to. Be totally chill and alert to my death, cuz I’m so interested in that.

And so when I get into the cold water and every cell in my body is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no you don’t. And they’re trying everything to tell me, don’t do this. Like please. Uh, and I just, I know it’s gonna be fine and I just calmly walk in and, and I just go and it. My first iowaska journey ever. I couldn’t drop in.

Like I couldn’t let go. And I had drank like four cups of iowaska and I was still just like holding on. Yeah. I’m like a heavy hitter here over here. I take a lot of psychedelics and they don’t do to me what they do to other people. Um, but the facilitator said, it’s just a little slide. She said, it’s just a little slide.

And I always think about that, like being a kid on top of a slide, you know, and as the parent you’re like, You know, they’re gonna be okay. It’s like they just have to push off and slide down and it’ll be fun. Like, it’s just a little slide. So I think about that and yeah, whenever I get out, it’s like the best I felt all day.

It’s such a rush. It is a consciousness shift for sure.

Hmm. Well, the last one I have is, uh, also a bit of a weird one, but, um, on YouTube I stumbled upon there’s, there’s all these, uh, categories of videos and styles of videos. And I stumbled upon this, uh, subgroup of videos that I call ’em giveaway videos. So, uh, The best one that I’ll reference is, uh, that was epic.

That’s the name of the guy’s channel. And a lot of them are people who do prank videos, but then they have this sub sort of subgenre of giveaway. So like this guy will just go up and knock on people’s doors and say, Hey, uh, how much is your rent? And you know, it’s due today. Right. And the person will say, you know, it’s, it’s $700 a month.

Why are you asking? He’s like, oh, well, cuz your rent due end of the month. Right. He said, yeah. Yeah. And then he hands him $700.


And then he moves on to the next house and they just keep doing that over and over. Well, they’re, you know, capturing, uh, their reaction. So there’s a bit of a, okay. It’s almost like they’re doing it for attention.

So there’s like the negative part of it. But I really like watching like that, um, that reaction for people or some of them will be, um, Like a waitress and they’ll leave the $2,000 tip and they’ll, they’ll get her reaction. And then she’ll say like, oh, you have no idea. Um, you know, I needed to buy shoes for my kid and I couldn’t, you know, or something like that.


And so there’s just like unlimited variations of those, but I’ll find that like when I’m really in a bit of a depressive hole, uh, and nothing else is working, I might just try that and I’ll just watch those videos and. Um, it’s great. You feel that human emotion, you watch, you know, someone else being uplifted and you see another human helping that person do that.

So the whole thing, it just, you know, kind of helps to lift you out of a hole.

That is so interesting. For sharing that I think my mom’s go-to videos for when she’s in a hole, are people slipping on ice, nothing cracks her up like that. oh, well, thank you very much, Fox for all you’ve given to the show. I mean, it, there’s no way it would’ve been possible without you it’s, you know, you make it just as possible as I do. And I just really appreciate all the time and, and I appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Oh, I appreciate you. It’s a love Fest, Leah.

it is. It is. Hmm. Well, come back at number 200. Hey,

200, 300, 400 all the way up to 900. Yes, 📍 I’ll be there.

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